limbaugh, all these people saying the birthers are out of their mind. kind of interesting. we'll see what happens. willie geist, i swear you have made broadcasting history again. >> barnacle sits over here during way too early, which is distracting enough in its own right, but he's critiquing the show as it goes. telling me, no good, i won't make it. >> joe and i realize we can say we are here at the beginning exactly. it's like being present when milton beryl came out. >> or the big bang. >> a big story, bill clinton touching down. we begin with breaking news. former president bill clinton is in north korea on behalf of the obama administration. he's trying to negotiate the release of those two jailed

american journalists. reporters euna lee and laura ling sentenced to 12 years of hard labor for illegally crossing the border. adrian joins us live from beijing -- she's not with us right now. we'll try to get back to her. pat buchanan, let me ask you. what do you think is going on here. can you remember a precedent for something like this? >> i think jimmy carter -- jesse jackson went into syria, i think, to get those two flyers back or one african-american flyer that had been shot down. i think jimmy carter went into north korea in 1994 to try to negotiate some kind of deal and prevent some kind of attack on their nuclear facilities. but it's a relative rarity. it tends to happen in democratic administrations, willie. >> joe, a fascinating choice, bill clinton, a man who kept at arm's length the obama campaign. what do you make of this. >> you hear a lot of obama surrogates still in the press.

john conison, i wouldn't call tina brown a surrogate but certainly close to the clintons in new york to get more involved, more involved in health care. instead of health care, they are sending him to north korea. just for the record and i don't mean to be negative but i feel a need to bring this up since pat did. bill clinton sent jimmy carter to strike a historic deal in 1994 or north korea's nuclear weapons. what we found later was that jimmy carter provided cover to the north koreans to actually develop their nuclear weapons program. as things go with jimmy carter, he went to nobel peace prize, that week they admit, yes, we used that to build nuclear weapons.

sometimes these things don't go quite as planned. so if bill clinton can just stay focused in north korea on the two young ladies getting them out, i think we're going to be fine. >> oh, the ones he's trying to get out. >> the ones he's trying to get out of north korea. keep the focus. >> thank you, joe. we're going to get that live report out of beijing coming up in a few minutes. in other news, secretary of state hillary clinton is also heading overseas for an 11 day, seven-nation tour of africa. it comes a day after clinton condemned israel for the plan to evict dozens of palestinians from home in east jerusalem. andrea mitchell is traveling with secretary clinton. she'll bring us live reports from africa all week right here on msnbc. the white house is backtracking on suggestion the administration is leaving open the possibility of raising taxes on middle class families. listen. >> secretary geithner and dr. summers say they would not raise

taxes on families? >> i did not watch the shows. i read some of the transcripts. they allowed themselves to get into a hypothetical back and forth. we're reiterating the president's clear commitment in as clear a terms as possible that he will not raise taxes on those who make under $250,000. clarifying what they said in the campaign. pat buchanan, the second we heard on sunday shows geithner and summers leaving a middle class tax cut open, you knew immediately that the next question that was coming to gibbs or obama was going to be are you going to go back on your pledge. yesterday it seems as if gibbs nailed that coffin shut. it's not going to happen. >> yeah. i think he had to, joe. you know all the problems the president has got with spending and budgets and the rest of it. all he's got to do is leave the

door open to raising taxes to pay for this health care program or something else, the health care program has a lot of problems. i think the backlash from that would just about sink it immediately. people would say we've been had completely. i expected gibbs to nail it shut. it was just at exactly what moment in his briefing he hit it. it would be, as you said, first thing out of the box. >> you know, mike barnicacle i' going to be positive. we're talking about a major health care reform package. everybody seems as if the debate now all centers around paying for this very big program. this is not the way washington has worked in the past. the american people have clearly been set up by six months of reckless spending and they have said enough. that has put a great deal of rerestaurant, i think, on the obama administration and democrats in this debate.

if you want something new, if you want a new big program, you're going to have to pay for it. you're going to pay for it by raising taxes on cutting costs somewhere else. that's a positive development. >> it is positive. the senate goes home this week, the house went home last week. they are now confronting millions of american families, heads of household, whether to the beach, movies, stay at home on vacation, they all sit around and ask a key question that congress has to ask, can we afford it. that's what people are wondering about the health care plan. under the circumstances the sense, joe, that as this debate continues, that the president may have gotten too far out front in terms of the town hall meetings and the traveling. rather than assembling the democrats and house and senate at the white house and injecting himself into the actual drafting the bill, he hasn't done that.

>> no. >> he hasn't done that on cap and trade. he hasn't done that on the stimulus package, on health care. i still think, pat, that's one of the fascinating things about this young administration, the first six months of his administration has not been like most administrations. he's basically pushed legislation off to nancy pelosi saying you take care of it. then he goes out and carries her water. that formula, i don't think that's worked particularly well as far as the kind of legislation that's come out or his approval rating. should he take more control six months later? >> well, i don't know, joe. i think mike is right. i think there's probably enough strength up there and behind some kind of health care reform that he can get something. but i'll tell you, you're right about the stimulus package. he let nancy pelosi have the franchise and it clearly has not

produced politically. maybe it's begun to produce economically. i think cap and trade is in very, very serious trouble. i think on this health care thing we've been seeing a couple, i don't know if they are representatives on the tv, we've been seeing that meeting specter was in, the meeting congressman was in. if that's representative to what's happening to some heading home, these senators, people are getting in their face, what are you doing, i think our old friend lawrence o'donnell might be right. the coalition could crumble. we'll find out this august, i think. but you're right, obama, i think, didn't keep control of it, if you will. he didn't keep control of his agenda. he let others pick up pieces and run with it and it's not worked out to his benefit. >> my suggestion would be if i were the president heading into the august recess, i'd drop my own plan while nancy pelosi was

out of town. and when she came back, i'd say this is what we're going to do. we're going to have tough consumer protection. when the economy turns around, we'll try to get a stronger public option. we'll try to get health care for 47 million americans. right now we're going to protect consumers. nancy, that's all we can do. he's got to take control of his agenda. i'll guarantee you these democrats -- i know how these things work. august recess can be great or it can be very bad. for democrats, especially moderate states, claire mccaskill, ben nelson, evan bayh it's going to be a rough ride. >> let me tell you what they will be confronted with during this recess. not only the democrats you mentioned. every member is going to be confronted with the undercurrent, the ripple of unemployment from coast-to-coast in this country. that's what they are going to be hit with before health care. i just lost my job. >> that's the thing.

you guys are debating what public option what? i want a job. why are you guys -- cap and trade, global warming. you know what, i don't know if there's global warming. i do know i can't afford to send my kid to a community college this fall. that's what you've said from the beginning. jobs, jobs, jobs. again, a lot of people in the house and some in the senate, few in the senate, have been obsessed with passing these bills that their ideological base will like but people out of work or afraid of going out of work aren't going to like so much. that's going to cause some problems. i will guarantee that people that helped barack obama in indiana, that swing group, don't give a damm about cap and trade. i'm going to say to a lot of my friends on the left, it's true. the people in missouri that will decide if claire mccaskill is a one-timer or goes home, right

now they don't give a damn about cap and trade, they want jobs. there has to be a refocus here. >> you lose your job, one week's unemployment, it takes you a month to get back economically. there's a lot of people out of work longer than a week. >> i'll tell you, my dad was out of work for 18 months back in the recession, '73, '74, '75, yeah, it's like a bomb goes off in your life. it's very tough. i've got a sitting if my dad were sitting around and nixon were talking about public options and health care and global warming, he'd go, what the hell, get me back to work. speaking of what the hell -- and unemployment, he doesn't know yet, but layer this afternoon bill karins will be filing for unemployment. what's up, mr. sunshine? >> why do i have to wait until

this afternoon. i could head to the beach or play golf this morning. >> phil griffin is sleeping late. he doesn't have time to fire you. when he wakes up, you're gone, brother. >> i'll give you one last forecast, give you one, too. look at the trouble spots, heading to the airports or flying through kansas city and st. louis today, thunderstorms are rolling through, severe thunderstorm watch to the north of the kansas city area all the way to north of st. louis. so that's the worst of it this morning. also some storms are rolling after southern indiana near the dayton, ohio area. those will be gone in about two hours. columbus, storms will be knocking on your door a half hour from now. continue to watch unbelievable heat in south texas. so far we have 37 103 days in san antonio. that's a record for the year. we're going to add two more. one today and one tomorrow. it's still going to be hot right into the upcoming weekend. here is a forecast for travel. orlando storms for you, typical for florida. a little change, the heat that is now heading into the east.

today philadelphia, 92. new york city has a chance of his first 90 degree day of the season. if it doesn't happen today, it will happen tomorrow with a high predicted of 91. took about 61 days but looks like summer finally arrived in new york. >> bill karins, thanks. nothing offensive in this forecast. >> i know. let me say something offensive here. did you hear about this story in wisconsin? >> i think i know where you're going. >> wisconsin women accused of tying up and assaulting a married man after allegedly finding out he was involved with each other. false imprisonment and felony. >> how far are you going to read? there's a line in there you have to be careful. >> i'm not going to read this line. prosecutors say four women, three women joined by 43-year-old wife. they say they punched the man in his face. >> hold it now. >> i will not read that they glued his penis to his stomach.

you know what, punch me in the face and we'll just leave it there. if you would like to get a stun gun, that would be fine, too. >> i thought we talked about leaving it. >> rubber bullets. you know, just about anything. crazy glue? >> gorilla glue. >> all the men are aghast in here. all right. thank you so much. on vacation but still sending us the stories you care about the most. coming up next, peggy noonan, editor of newsweek, do not meacham, pulitzer prize winner. he's got to be proud, too, as he gets dressed saying honey i'm going. this is -- we'll talk to the former commander of the u.s.

forc forces. i doubt he shows up. also pulitzer prize journalist ugeeb robinson. the three stories that will change your life. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. >> the president spent a little time with some friends over the weekend at camp david playing basketball and having dinner and bowling and having some fun. >> what did he bowl? >> i watched this. 144. no, no, no. she was keeping score. no. no. for dazzling white teeth, give toothpaste the brush off.

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tomorrow is president obama's birthday. did you know that?

i'm thinking 48. yeah, he's still so very popular. this is actually a true story in the news today. the latest slang dictionary reports that the word "obama" means cool. as you are so obama. that's true. also gaining popularity, the phrase shut your biden hole. >> anyone that uses that term to describe cool should be punched. >> i'm sick and tired of them kicking joe biden around. seriously, joe is doing a very, very good job. that is just a job that diminishes a person. >> can't help it now. it's too much fun. can't let it alone. >> speaking of too much fun, chief correspondent of politico, mike allen here with the morning playbook. how are you doing? >> no crazy glue around here.

>> that's good. aren't you good we brought you that story. that will be all over "politico" this morning. your other story, white house striking back on health care, trying to put fingers in the holes in the dike, to stop all the web stories coming out. what are they doing that. >> we're seeing white house using techniques they perfected in the campaign to push back contributes of the health insurance plan. yesterday in the drudge report, there was a video that showed a clip out of context, the white house says, of the president back in '07 seeming to suggest that in the long-term his health plan would undo private insurers. the white house crashed overnight, new media team with a video featuring linda douglass, used to be nbc correspondent now white house officials, one of the familiar naz, saying they are cherry picking his words not portraying what he said. >> the people who always try to

scare people whenever you try to bring them health insurance reform are at it again. they are taking sentences and phrases out of text and cobbling them together to leave a false impression. the truth is the president has been talking to the american people a lot about health insurance reform and what's at stake for them. what happens is because he's talking to the american people so much, there are people on the there with a computer and free time and they take a phrase here and there. they simply cherry pick and put it together and make it sound like he's saying something that he didn't really say. >> mike, this is admirable but how do you cover every rumor on the internet and who is actually seeing that video. where can we find it? >> you can click on politico.com and you'll see it right there. >> of course. >> also on white house.gov later today. what we're seeing is you can't put everything back in the bottle, toothpaste back in the

tube. we saw it during the campaign, make of these rumors, if supporters know the truth, they are less likely to pass it on. there's a certain group that will pass these things on no matter what. the middle, the people most affected by this, might not if they see the president saying it's not right. >> speaking of fascinating internet videos we're seeing these mobs at health care town hall meetings shouting back as politicians as they defend what they are doing. let me play kathleen sebelius and arlon specter in philadelphia on sunday. watch this. >> i have never seen members of congress work harder. it is unacceptable to me. hours and hours and hours have been spent. if people say they haven't read the legislation, then tell them to go back and read it. >> what's going on here in why the outrage? how are government officials and

politicians going to respond to these things? >> well, this actually can be a long, hot august, because all kinds of advocacy groups are tracking these congressional events, sending people out to the place they can get to the congresswoman face-to-face, not have to worry about e-mail or letter or any other type of intermediary. they are becoming more like town hells. used to be people thought they had to behave. now you sigh rowdiness, people openly confronting members. with youtube, everybody has a video on their phone. the video at town hall that that birther video came from. a lot of these. it makes reluctant to do this. >> that's a good point. by the way you're hearing left wing bloggers saying this is all insurance companies or pharmaceuticals that are sending people out. let me tell you something, i

have tried to feign outrage, bring people to meetings, you can't get people out of their house unless they are really angry about it. they have got problems with health care. the level of anger you can see. that video, birthers out there angry. i bring that up to say i'm not comparing berters to people who care about health care, just saying there's a high level of anger because federal government is seen in middle america as going way over in the last six months and it's going to be a long august. >> we need to point out that particular clip played, that was philadelphia. >> that's not philadelphia, mississippi. it's a very blue city in a very blue state. >> joe, look, i think there's really something out there. i was talking to my sister.

she said this weekend there was some 7,000 or 10,000 out in columbus, ohio in the square. you've got the tea party groups. you've got the groups concerned about the jobs. you've got the health care thing, the birther things. i think this is all -- i think this thing is reaching a certain critical mass of populist hostility and resentment to washington. i don't think it's pro republican or pro democratic, but a lot of this tea party stuff -- it's like the perot movement i think in the early 1990s. >> like the perot movement in '92, also like what i saw on the campaign trail in '93 and '94, there are a lot of democrats and a lot of independents who got out who just couldn't stand bill clinton or his policies and the level of animosity is parallel -- this type of animosity -- again, as pat said, the loyalty did not go to

republicans. i didn't get their buzz but after i got in, of course, they were angry at me. >> for being you. >> for being me. i gave them so many reasons for being angry. thank god. >> joe, it wasn't birthers in '92, it was the plaque helicopters. >> you're exactly right. >> the only way to calm the folks down, look, when i'm elected, air force will be understanding orders, shoot them down, took care of the problem. >> everywhere you went in '93 and '94 people asked about the black helicopters. >> that's right. they had seep them. >> i would sit this and stare at them and keep walking. i asked buchanan, what did you do in '92, he said, i tell them, when i see a black helicopter, we're going to shoot them down. >> politico's mike allen. as always we'll read "politico" all day.

coming up, newspaper pages around the country including must-read opinion pages. we'll be right back on "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. he ran off with his secretary! she's 23 years old!

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rock" in new york city. time for a look at top stories. former president bill clinton meeting with officials in north korea this morning in a bid to secure the release of two jailed american journalists. the trip represents clinton's highest mission yet for the obama administration and only the second time a former u.s. president has visited north korea. a new study shows the use of antidepressant drugs across the u.s. has doubled between 1996 and 2005. in the last year of the study around 27 million people were prescribed with the medication. that adds up to nearly $10 billion in sales. and today lawyers for the juice, o.j. simpson will try to convince a nevada court panel to real the former football great from prison pending an appeal. simpson is serving nine to 33 years for kidnapping and assault with a deadly weapon stemming] from a 2007 confrontation with two sports memorabilia dealers

in a las vegas courtroom. >> that trail is getting cold. >> it is. been a long time. >> he's got to get back to the investigation. >> take a look at the morning papers. bill clinton to discuss release of journalists in north korea. ex-president on his first mission for obama. >> "l. a. times," same story, bill clinton's surprise mission to north korea. >> "washington post," united states attorney, virginia and new york in competition over the opportunity to put 911 suspect khalid shaikh mohammed on trial. >> on the front page of the washington times, clunkers debate teams up old foes. $2 billion expansion, that vote close. >> usa today, more people asked to carry concealed weapons. gun numbers rising fearing stricter gun control during the obama administration and higher crime during a struggling economy.

"wall street journal," bank of america hit by fine other merrill. a civil lawsuit alleging it misled shareholders about billions of dollars in business. coming up next, former commerce secretary carlos gutierrez and "the daily beast" tina brown. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. when i was seventeen summer days were not good to my skin. (announcer) new neutrogena total skin renewal. it's clinically tested to help undo the look of a year's worth of skin aging in just one week. do-overs do exist. (announcer) tal skin renewal neutrogena.

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with us now co-founder and editor in chief of "daily beast" tina brown. former trade secretary carlos gutierrez and pat buchanan tina, we just have to start with the "new york times" piece about the party of the century. >> bring it up again. >> i have to bring it up.

it was a fascinating story about this may not have been the party of the century but it was in the top five. >> the beginning, celebrated at liberty island. >> which marked the end of an era. >> as we know it. >> the end of fun as we know it. after that, it was like jay gatsbe shot and -- >> now we're a prius nation about to drive around in tiny european cars eating health food. i kind of miss the '90s when everybody was irresponsible. it was a moment. we're all kind of maxed out on

responsibility at the moment, i think. >> the bigger point was that magazines started to take a fall and here you are now. the article talked about how you, once again, are ahead of the curve with the "daily beast." is it really the end of magazines as we know it? >> i think it's certainly a volcanic realignment, let's put it that way. i personally find being online with "the daily beast" exciting because i went through that whole turbulence realignment, magazine collapsed. i had to stumble around. i found this new medium to work in and i'm absolutely adoring it and it's working, thank goodness. i think a lot of people i know right now are just entering that realignment. they stayed in magazines and now they are finding it's collapsing around them and it's very, very scary stuff. i do think there is going to be a huge change.

i think ten years from now we're going to be having this conversation and the entire landscape will be utterly unrecognizable. brands you've not heard of yet will be ruling the roost. when you consider google didn't even exist, it's how fast a brand can be made on the internet. "the daily beast" now has over 2 million visitors a month. it took us eight months to build that. when i was ativanity fair, it took me seven years to build up. it took so long to build a brand. that's exciting and an opportunity. eugene robinson writes about berserk birthers

-- pat buchanan, again, i saw you last night on a show where you had some people we could say on the left that were trying to make this birther controversy not only a very serious controversy but a controversy that represented the republican party. >> well, it doesn't, joe. look, we've gone -- if you've gone through politics and mike can tell you for a long time, we've got oliver stone, lbj, the cia was behind the kennedy assassination. you've got spike lee story i think suggesting either bush was neglectful or somebody dynamited the 17th street. these things go on and on and on. a lot of people believe them. got the vince foster murder, so to speak. people believe those things. >> pat, on the other side of it

also you had stories of george h.w. bush getting cocaine from central america and selling it. we had a congresswoman saying he was getting coke from central america and exporting it into south central l.a. then of course you have the one that had more false information in a movie than i've ever seen before, michael moore, fahrenheit 97, things in there that were just outright conspiracies and wrong. what is it about our political culture that encourages this? >> i think people outside of washington, they don't under it. they read a lot of things going on and they say, you know, it can't be possible that all these things would go wrong, unless it were some kind of conspiracy. of course they suspect one party and the other. remember george h.w. bush was supposed to be meeting secretly

in paris, so they would hold onto the hostages and would get reelected. we found out he was where he belonged, at the country club having lunch with potter stewart. >> that's where you kept him in the reagan administration. the chevy chase country club. if we find you're up in bethesda -- let's go to carlos gutierrez. "the wall street journal" writes -- mr. secretary, will the president have to raise taxes if he wants nationalized health care? >> i can't see any other way,

joe. as you mentioned, by the way, in your book -- how is that for a plug? -- >> thank you, sir. >> you can't suspend math. this isn't a matter of ideology anymore, it's an idea of arithmetic. traditionally our tax revenue has been 18 to 20% of gdp, maybe it goes up to 21. but you're really hitting the maximum levels there. we've got a 13% deficit, how do you cover that? >> mr. secretary, you just tax the rich, right? >> there's not enough money there? >> there's a limit to how much you can ring out of people who make over $250,000 a year. >> mr. secretary, that's exactly what economist vs been saying over the past two weeks in the "times," "wall street journal," you don't have enough. we have people in new york and california already paying 55, 60% of their income to

governments. where do you go from there? >> the thing is, as you well know, joe, cutting spending in washington, cutting programs is the most difficult thing to do. when they say we're going to cut. we're going to be more efficient. we're going to look at line by line. it just doesn't work that way. you have to go toward the revenue. right now what you have to stop doing is spending. we can't add another trillion and a half dollars to the deficit as it stands today. it is a wild experiment, a radical experiment. the american people, who frankly do not like extremes, are beginning to notice that. what makes them very nervous is the only thing they hear from the administration is kind of a rosey outlook. don't worry about it. it's going to work. >> let me ask you this, mr. secretary. obama administration budget projected 4% growth.

under what circumstances can this economy be expected to grow by 4%? we didn't grow by 4% when we were all using our mortgages as credit cards, right? >> i don't see it. four percent sustainable is huge. i don't see what the growth strategy is. either consumers are going to start spending like they have never done before, at least not in the last decade, which i doubt because there's a tendency and trend toward more saving. perhaps we can do it through exports. but this administration is doing everything possible to not approve free trade agreements, to not move forward on free trade programs. i don't think the answer is there. where is it going to come from? perhaps government spending but i don't think that's the solution. i don't see 4% growth in the cards. >> i just don't either. it's just not possible. i think of david stockman and

this rosey scenario he talked about in 1981. it's the same thing. >> are these people kidding me? we're going to have 11% unemployment by november. unemployed 12, 16, 18 months and come back and start spending? it's not going to happen. >> these numbers as the good commerce secretary said, if you read my book, thank you, it's not about ideology, it's about math. the numbers don't add up. mr. secretary, you are so great, perhaps the greatest guest we've ever had here. thank you for coming. >> thank you for having me, joe. >> all right. tina, say with us, even though you didn't mention my book. coming up in a few minutes, washington journal's peggy noonan plus willie geist with the news you can't use, plus pat buchanan. he's in washington and he's not happy. what's nice about the iphone,

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welcome back to "morning joe." live pictures of las vegas where sports gaming is legal. speaking of sports cardinals were off so the cubs had a big opportunity to move in for a tie

for first place. mike fontenot getting the lead. the pitcher for the cubs won four in a row. he's a rookie. >> strong inning. >> struck out five. they are tied with the cardinals for fourth place. >> lou piniella looks like joe does every morning pacing back and forth if he was right about his relief pitcher. >> what are we going to do next hour and the next. it's killing me. >> deeply concerned. >> first place tigers in detroit, couple of great catches for penn. first inning, on his horse. this is a good one. tim in the sixth inning at the wall. he makes the catch, loses his glove. but somehow holds on to make the catch. not clear what we saw.

walkoff home run in the ninth inning. five runs down beat orioles 6-5. joe will like this story, football guy. florida gators resigned irvin meyer to a six-year, $24 million deal. that's a college football coach. $4 million a year. the second highest in football bind carroll. >> we would never do that in alabama. education first. >> it's outrageous. >> vanderbilt coach bobby johnson, eight bucks an hour but they are getting a lot of bang for their buck. >> they are. >> big news. >> your favorite sport and my favorite sport starts this saturday. the english premier league. guess what? >> tether ball. >> stop. >> alonzo has not been transferred. looks like liverpool is looking good. >> do you follow soccer. >> i love soccer.

it's the only thing i understand. i like soccer and i like cricket. i'm so deprived here. >> we can talk. >> the game americans call soccer we call football. >> nfl news former giant plaxico burress indicted by the grand jury on weapons charges. he's the youngster who shot himself in the thigh carrying a loaded gun in the waistband of his pants to a nightclub. >> is he still the new jersey memphis city. >> how about that. news you can't use. john and kate. progressive.

call or click today.

the latest news you can't use. hard to believe it was only june jon and kate split. you're either on jon's side or kate's side. you're a kate guy? >> the white house after north korea. >> clinton can go over to kate's house, talk to her, bring them back together. >> pray for her. more than she can handle after eight kids. back on the air after the split. this is an ironic clip. listen to kate talk about the media exposure her kids are receiving. >> two and a half days we had about three to five paparazzi who stuck around outside of our

house just like they did at home. what do you do? i'm living my life. if they have to be there to take pictures, great. but i'm not going to keep my kids inside and stifle their existence. >> did you follow that? she put kids on a reality show and now she's upset people are watching. >> you can go from putting them on tv to complaining about paparazzi. first thrust yourself into the cameras, then make a whole career out of complaining about media. >> not just yourself but your children as well. >> celebrities. i hate celebrities, i don't care whether they are sports stars, movie stars. >> you're a celebrity. >> that are in paparazzi and complaining about that. there's a good way to take care of that. go back home to kansas and work in an auto shop and people will stop following you around. >> or alaska.

>> or alaska. >> the more you complain, the more they follow you. i have a really important story. it's the top of the hour. more of a salute than anything else. an 86-year-old chicago woman this week arrested for petty larce larceny, shoplifting, for the 65th time. here is what she stole. two packs of l'oreal revita lift cream. eight jars of face cream, 11 packs of aa batteries, five packs of salmon, doesn't fit in and four jars of taster's choice coffee. nice hall. >> is this for her -- >> her first arrest cain 1956. yesterday now we learn her 61th arrest. we salute you ella of chicago.

welcome to "morning joe." we have a lot going on. coming up, peggy noonan. first let's go to willie for a quick look at some of the top stories. >> we begin with breaking news. former president bill clinton is in north korea right new on behalf of the obama administration. he's trying to negotiate the release of two jailed american journalists. reporters euna lee and laura ling sentenced to 12 years of hard labor for illegally crossing the border. although tensions over the north korean nuclear program have spiked in recent months, clinton's focus will remain on the reporters and not wider foreign policy. that's just breaking. we'll keep you updated. meanwhile secretary of state hillary clinton is heading overseas for an 11-day seven-nation tour of africa. it came a day after reports

people will be evicted from homes in jerusalem. do you think clintons will meet, president clinton and secretary of state. >> maybe go to the vineyard. esca . >> i'm glad to see him back in a role. the obama administration would rather have -- than give him a role. i'd like to see him on health care. help there to bring him around. he has got a lot to offer. i think he should be used. >> there's still some tension there. >> there's a great deal of tension. there is. they don't like him. he still feels very bitter about the campaign. very bitter. in fact, someone i know he said they call me every few weeks or so, but i feel they are just

checking a box. >> this is a big box in north korea. meanwhile white house backtracking on suggestion made on sunday talk shows that the administration is leaving open the possibility of raising taxes on middle class families. here is robert gibbs. >> why did secretary geithner and summers say they would not raise taxes on the families. >> i did not watch the shows. i read some transcripts. they allowed themselves to get into a hypothetical back and forth. reiterating the president's clear commitment in as clear a terms as possible he's not raising taxes on those that make less than $250,000 a year. >> they are clarifying they are not going to raise taxes. >> they are, pat buchanan. that's a political necessity now, isn't it, for the democrats? >> sure. i think they remember george bush who promised no new taxes. when he went back on it, it

probably cost him the presidency of the united states. obama, there's nothing he said more emphatically than no one who makes under $250,000 is going to have his taxes raised. to open this door is a real problem for him. i'll tell you, joe, you know and i know, social security when they reform that, how do you do that without partially raising that payroll tax. so there's a lot of problems coming down the road. he ought to close this door now. >> the numbers don't add up. he needed to close it especially for his moderate, conservative democrats going back home in the august recess. they have enough to defend right now without the possibility of a tax increase on the middle class. willie, what else have we got? >> officials in thailand say the pilot of a commercial plane was killed when the plane slid off a wet runway and crashed into an old control tower. at least seven of the 16 passengers were injured in that accident. today the full senate begins debate on the nomination of judge sonia sotomayer to the

supreme court. confirmation virtually assured in a democrat senate perhaps coming as early as friday. still, several republicans plan to vote against the nominee including senator john mccain. >> regardless of one's success in academics and government service, an individual who does not appreciate the common sense limitations on judicial power in our democratic system of government ultimately lacks a key qualification for a lifetime appointment to the bench. for this reason and no other, i'm unable to support judge sotomayer's nomination. >> judge, are you surprised to hear that from mccain? >> i am. pat buchanan, republicans have a long history of going after democratic nominees for the supreme court. but in the end deferring, advising and consenting but deferring to a president's choice. republicans have done that a lot

more than democrats. they seem to be changing their stripes now. do you think that's a good idea? >> i do, joe, for this reason. ruth ginsburg got 96 votes and briar got 87 votes. a lot of folks felt republicans have not put democratic nominee through the paces. but you notice mccain, a surprise to me because i thought lindsey graham who was very close to him would be signaling his vote. you notice he defined it to judicial activism. this alone, the content of her decisions. i think the idea republicans have adopted the obama idea when he opposed roberts and alito of judicial ideology these things count as well as judicial activism. i think we're in a new era and republicans are going to start playing almost as tough hardball as democrats have been playing. >> you know, peggy, democrats have turned judicial nominees

battles into absolute blood sports. look what happened with bourque, the horrific things said about robert bourque. look at the insanity of the clarence thomas hearings. he was turned into a cartoon character by the same people who later supported bill clinton. and i always liked the fact that republicans while they would ding the nominees would defer to the president and it didn't come down to raw power and raw ideology. >> raw politics. >> i disagree with my good friend pat here. i wish we would advise and consent, unless there was something really out there vote the nominee in. what do you think? >> i think in general elections have meaning. when a president is elected, he gets to pick his supreme court choices, as long as they reasonably fit into the mainstream, if you will.

there is every reason to give the president agreement to what he is asking for. i think barack obama -- >> even if you disagree idea logically. i'm sure sonia sotomayer will have many rulings that bother me. >> i think barack obama when he was a young senator from illinois was wrong to vote against roberts and alito because he didn't like their philosophical thinking. they satisfied the criteria in so many ways. they were mainstream choices. i thought obama was wrong. i don't like seeing republicans in the senate going down the same path democrats have been going down the past 20 years. it rubs me the wrong way. presidents get to pick supreme court nominees. the senate i think should be very reasonable and judicious about it. >> i think so, too. >> let me rise briefly to mccain's defense here. the basic republican philosophy

in my judgment is this. the supreme court is not a place that makes law at all. if you take an issue like -- controversial like gay marriage or abortion, things like, that these decisions should all be left to the legislatures, to the congress. >> you and i agree with that. the question is give me a name of a ruling where sotomayer was wildly out of step with the mainstream of judicial thought. >> all right. she ruled in new york state that the new york state law that denied the right to vote to convicted felons in pen tench rice violated the civil rights act because it had a disparate impact on minorities because they were overrepresented in prison. this is a wild, crazy interpretation of the civil rights act. hubert humphrey would never agree with. that judicial activism on behalf

of her philosophy is what was the problem. >> if that went to the supreme court, you and i both know, it would be a 5-4 decision. maybe a 6-3 decision. that's my point. if you have somebody that's going to be on the wrong side of one decision, two decisions, just because you and i disagree with that decision, don't you, as a man that's worked for two presidents, don't you believe the president, once elected should be shown deference by the sena senate? >> i do believe they should be shown deference. the fact he's a liberal political figure doesn't bother me. what bothers me, however, is judicial philosophy which says the supreme court makes laws for the american people. we live, in my judgment, joe, we've lived the last 50 years very much under something approaching a judicial dictatorship, a rule of judges

which replaced the rule of kings. judges should not be the deciders. elected executives they make the law. judges simply say we think that violates the constitution or we don't think that violates the constitution. >> on the other side as well, pat, i obviously believe judicial activism over the past 50 years has not been a positive development at all. at the same time democrat are talking about how radical john roberts has been over the past three or four years. i think again it coarsens the debate. i think we should show deference. the thing that bothered me the most about senator barack obama is he voted against john roberts. how could anybody vote against john roberts. >> how much is this about mccain

doing his maverick thing. every once in a while he does feel he has to reestablish his role as maverick. it's the role he plays in our political culture. >> in this kiss -- >> the election next year and worried about the demographic in arizona. i have one quick note on this, judicial activism, increase in judicial activism over the last 50 years. i think there's a connection from state to state. they bump every judicial issue to a higher court because they don't have courage to vote yes or no and take consequences from constituencies. from school busing to abortion, you name it, they pass it on. >> yes, you're right. they have on abortion. i think they probably will on gay marriage as well. willie, final story? >> one more story for you. president obama celebrating his 48th birthday today with a modest bump in his approval rating. according to gallup the numbers

have edged four points to 56% after reaching an administration low point of 52%. the president plans to mark his birthday in meetings with senate democrats to discuss the economy and health care. >> let me in that party. >> happy birthday to him. >> ♪ happy birthday to you >> peggy, my question to you is, what do democrats need to do to reframe the debate as they go to the august recess? president obama sitting at 56%. nancy pelosi, the face of the democratic house, 25%, 10 points below sarah palin, 13 percentage points below dick cheney, below dick cheney. >> the new low. >> the funny thing is we always hear how unpopular sarah palin and dick cheney are, a much nicer ride than those two,

double digits below them. what do democrats need to do? >> a few things. one thing i think they ought to be doing is realizing in the arlon specter youtube moment the other day, the biggest boos he got from the crowd came at the moment when he said, you know, we've got to do this quickly. we've got to do this fast, the whole health care thing. it's 18, 19% of the american economy. if health care touches on so many lives and so many personal and profound ways, i think at the very least people are saying slow down. if this is going to be 5,000 page bill, could we slow down and read them? could we talk through every part? the biggest thing is we don't have to be hysterical about this. >> we do. we do. we were hysterical about the stimulus bill. actually had congress, good friend of mine on the friday before they were going to do the

bill and go out of town. he said why don't you instead of -- he admitted he had not read the bill. why don't you instead of voting on friday just vote on monday and you can read the bill throughout the weekend? and he said -- you can do it on monday. it's not going to become law. they did that with cap and trade also. we have to rush it through. we're not going to read it. now we're hearing health care. >> if i really thought they were all going to spend august reading it, i would be so incredibly happy. you know what they are going to be doing? they are going to be fund-raising and getting themselves reelected, spinning, they are not going to be thinking about what they really think about the health care bill. >> september or november, the stimulus thing proved when under the circumstances this hysterical we've got to move now, we've got to move now, what do you get at the end? a bill everybody looks at later

and says -- >> a steaming pile of garbage. i've been calling it a steaming pile of garbage. i stand by my description. >> all right. >> getting cranky with information overload, too, cranky wit. saying i don't understand it. you don't understand it. enough already. >> the little boy mike barnicle can cry wolf only so often. we hear democrats crying we've got to pass the stimulus package now or else the economy will be destroyed. got to pass cap and trade bill now or else the icecaps will melt and we're going to down. we've got to pass health care now. at some point americans are going to say, okay, come on. stop trying to scare me. let's face it. george w. bush did the same thing in iraq. we've got to go in there now. rushing it, scaring people never works in the long run. >> people can tell also a government that says now, now, now, is in its own way

panicking. it's not being deliberate and serious. it's saying if you don't do it now i won't get it. we have to have it by tuesday at 10:00 a.m. >> when you strip everything away from the bill, from this steaming pile of garbage. you get to the bottom point millions of americans showed up last fall at record numbers at the polls to vote for barack obama to drive the car. not sit in the back seat while nancy pelosi and harry reid drove the car. they want barack obama to get behind the wheel and drive the car. >> that's the damnedest thing. i asked why this happened. he had his plan. nancy said no. he deferred on that, cap and trade, health care. why is he deferring on all these huge issues that are, again, defining his presidency. >> joe, i think the reason is --

the reason i think, joe, it's his character. it's not a bad character. there's a certain diffidence, if you will. the other anti-thesis of lbj hands on, getting into this amendment, that amendment. i think he naturally defers. i'm the commander. let them carry these things out. i think, joe, what has happened, in middle america people say give this guy a shot. this may represent really change, this may be something different of the conclusion is c c congeeling these are the same old tax and spend democrats as before. >> he's done too much campaigning at 10,000 feet. he needs to kind of get down and do the sort of get dirty. >> here is the metaphor, life and politics and being president is not the beer garden. it's not gates and crowley with

harry reid and nancy pelosi. you can't bring them together for a drink on the back lawn of the white house. you've got to dive in there and say this belongs -- >> the problem is you're talking about making consensus, bringing people together. the problem is if the speaker of the house is from a swing district in maryland, the president would be dealing with a much more moderate speaker. instead you get nancy pelosi worried about the hard left in her district, worried about the hard left in the house of representatives. the only consensus we've had in the first bill has been on the far left. that is a political problem, again, for claire mccaskill as she goes home this month. a problem for mary, evan bayh and others. a lot of moderate democrats that got elected in districts in 2006 and 2008. >> the irony in the end won't

help save health care, they may force some of the adjustments he wouldn't take. >> if they don't make those adjustments in the house it will not pass the senate. tina, thanks so much for being here. it's great to see you. coming up, prize winning author hank johns-- haynes johnson. the recent cover here caught president obama off-guard. the latest out of the white house and bill clinton's surprise visit to north korea. we're talking to the chief white house correspondent. and breaking news this morning next managing editor of nightly news, savannah guthrie. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. and who doe? been true since the day i made my first dollar. where is that dollar? i got it out to show you...

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president clinton in north

korea trying to free the journalists. savannah, what's going on in north korea? when did you find out from lot ofy position that bill clinton would be going to north korea. >> about 4:00 in the morning ap started buzzing with that news out of north korea actually. of course the white house with the statement a few minutes ago. interesting to see what robert gibbs said, referred to it as a solely private mission saying the white house will have no comment because they don't want to jeopardize the success of the former president's mission. obviously bill clinton is a big name, big card to play. hard to imagine they would send him there unless they felt he would have a successful mission and be able to secure the release of these two journalists. reportedly behind the scenes the white house did approve this mission.

they are call eight fully private mission and trying to separate it from u.s. diplomacy. >> pat buchanan sounds like a deal may have been struck. okay. our president is not going to be able to talk to your president. you send us bill clinton, we'll release the women. what do you think? >> i agree with savannah, there's going to be something done in advance. i don't think he would walk in out of the blue. hillary clinton has said as secretary of state, no more concessions with north korea when they keep drawing back to what they are committed to. she's taking a tough line. looks like a change of position of the administration. i agree with savannah. i have to believe bill clinton is not going to walk out of there with nothing. >> yesterday the white house backed off some statements that were made on sunday suggesting the middle class could have

their taxes raised. what's the white house's statement moving forward. read my lips, no new taxes on the middle class. >> we talked about this yesterday. there might be cleanup on this issue and there was. robert gibbs took pains to not only close the door but put the bar on the door and hope it never came up again and has left no wiggle room whatsoever, no in terms of time, type of attack. they are saying the middle class, those under $250,000 a year will not face a tax increase. as for what they are saying on the shows, he's saying i think they allowed themselves to be drawn into hints. there was a meeting with geithner and summers yesterday where they went over this issue again. so as i said, the press secretary really wanted to make

it clear. i think i counted the word clear 15 times. >> read my lips. economists have said barack obama cannot do what he wants to do without taxes being raised on the middle class. >> that's one problem. that's one thing. how do you define the middle class. for one thing, people who make $251,000 a year who will be more heavily taxed apparently. if you have a family of two kids and pulling in $250,000 a year, you do not think you're rich. you're paying sales taxes, all your insurances, child cares, work the second job. you are feeling squeezed and beat up. >> let me explain that, peggy, okay. if i make $250,000 in pensacola, florida, i'm rich. if i make $250,000 -- because we don't have state income tax.

if i make $250,000 in manhattan or new jersey, look at los angeles, rent, taxes, 55% of your money goes straight to the government. a lot of people in urban centers don't feel rich with three or four kids making that type of money. >> we know statistically according to the tables 250 is a lot. we know in real life in many states, new york, california, et cete cetera, those people are feeling the squeeze. they are already seen as a piggy bank for legislators in the united states who pick them up, shake them and take out their extra change. i'm telling you the tax burdens on people like that who are considered rich are huge. they are going to wind up paying 40, 50, 60% of their income in taxes. if you look at those people and say we think you should pay more, they are going to rebel.

what i think i see in the youtube clips, et ceteraish is, among other things, a rebellion instead of an uprising. >> i think you're right. savannah, one follow-up question did you get a follow-up when gibbs claimed president obama bowled a 142, because i don't believe it. >> i think the follow-up was collective laughter in the briefing room. apparently it happened. he was celebrating his birthday, which was actually today. >> did you see the actual scorecard? >> i didn't. you know, what i need to look that up. you're right. i'm going to get right on that. >> let me tell you something, you've got your birthers, there's also the bowlers out there that don't believe he did a 142. as ronald reagan said trust. if you were truly going to be the managing editor of "nbc nightly news" next week, you have to up your game. >> obviously. >> savannah guthrie, thank you

so much. chief white house correspondent. she's also taking over andrea mitchell's show today. her guest, david axelrod. patrick j. buchanan, i hope you got a fairer hearing here than you did in other places. >> dissent is tolerated here. >> it is. 2008 election, rare insight into the longest and most expensive presidential race in u.s. history when "morning joe" returns. during times like these it seems like the world will never be the same. but there is a light beginning to shine again. the spark began where it always begins. at a restaurant downtown. in a shop on main street. a factory around the corner. entrepreneurs like these are the most powerful force in the economy.

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deaf, hard of hearing and people with speech disabilities acss www.sprintrelay.com. today i announce my candidacy for president of the united states. don't tell me we can't make our country stronger and the world safer. we can, we must. and when i'm president, we will. >> from the shadow of the old state capital where lincoln once called on a house divided to stand together, where common hopes and common dreams still live, i stand before you today to announce my candidacy for president of the united states of america. >> with us now lead reporter from "washington post," prize

winning journalist, co-author of battle for america 2008. haynes, start with you. i love the axelrod memo, laid it all out for him including the part where he says, buddy, your thin skinned. i'm going to tell you something now the thin skinned politician won't like. >> it's a tough memorial okay. he really lays out you're the guy who can't take a punch he says to his nominee. >> don't know whether you're ali or patterson. >> can you take a punch. you like people to like you. you don't take criticism very well. it's an extraordinary tough and really useful thing. the idea we never even used it before. the idea he wrote that to him at the time, this is 2006. sow lays out the whole sort of your problem being a candidate.

you like people to like you. you're poised, confident, but can you take a punch. you don't take criticism very well. it was extraordinary. >> dan, another part of that. some advice from axelrod saying history is littered with presidential wannabes who waited too long, didn't run to the lightning when it was striking. basically telling him, now is your time, buddy. jump in the fray. >> what he was saying was you're never doing to be hotter than you are this minute. part of what he did in that memo in addition to giving tough criticism lay out the state of the country and explain why then senator obama with his relatively thin resume and experience was right for that moment, in a way that hillary clinton was not right for that moment. but he said she has strength. and at this point, you don't

necessarily have that but the campaign can be a proving ground for strength. and as we saw, that, in fact, was what happened. >> two political giants wrong he would when bill clinton got a call from teddy kennedy. tell us about that extraordinary conversation. >> the kennedys and the clintons, after all bill clinton modeled himself after jack kennedy, got that picture taken in the oval -- the president. the whole idea of being accused of not being helpful to obama, and they wanted the endorsement. after the nomination process was about to end, they wanted very much to have the endorsement from teddy. and teddy -- the clintons did. >> and the conversations, a series of telephone calls that got more and more contentious between ted kennedy and bill clinton. mainly bill and not hillary.

and it got more and more and more. it's an extraordinary, emotional, passionate race comes into it. the whole thing. and finally, of course, kennedy -- >> made his call. >> that really was one of the things that helped obama get the nomination. no question about it. >> bottom line, why was teddy for barack obama and not for mrs. clinton? >> i think he saw in obama something like his brothers. he was appealing to people. he reached out. he was touching a new generation. more and more and more he saw him jack and bob, bob kennedy in obama, this young guy who was on his way, who had a vision for the country, reached out to a new generation of americans. and he really helped him. he held off the nomination endorsement until the very end, but that's when it got this conversation started. >> he was very admiring of

hillary clinton personally and as a senator but he did not think that she represented the future in a year in which he thought change is the key issue. but as haynes said also, he felt what he saw in obama could help transcend some of the racial divisions and he was very much drawn by that. >> dan, let's go on the republican side. one of the more chaotic chapters of mccain's campaign, and there were many, was the picking of the vice president. john mccain desperately, desperately wanted to pick joe lieberman. there were shouting matches saying if lieberman is picked, half of the republican convention is going to walk out on you so they went with palin. mccain stayed i won't say bitter but he remained disappointed he couldn't have his buddy

lieberman next to him. >> the talks went so far that the campaign manager discussed specifically with lieberman, if picked would you and mccain agree to serve only one term, four years and out. lieberman was quite willing to do that. we talked to him. he said -- i said, look, i didn't expect to getting this close to being selected. sure, i'd be happy to do one term. but the chief pollster said, have you-all read the rules of the republican convention? it takes four states to create a protest on the floor. we'll blow up the place. they decided they couldn't go in that direction. at that point both steve schmidt and rick davis felt you had to do a real game changing. they were drawn to the idea of sarah palin. they knew if they ran even a pretty good race what conventional choice for vp they probably couldn't win. so they were looking to shake it up of that was the key.

>> they were going to lose unless they did something dramatic. and the dramatic was going to sarah palin. >> and his brother pat buchanan said, it was working. >> thank you so much. a great book. really seems to me every four years there's one great book written about a presidential campaign. for those of us that grew up on teddy white, it's always exciting when you find that book. i think this is the one. thank you so much. still ahead the fight for afghanistan. we're going to be talking strategy with retired general, "washington post" columnist eugene robinson will be here but john meacham when "morning joe" returns.

welcome back to "morning joe." a quick weather update. st. louis all the way to kansas city, thanks to friends there a wonderful shot. airports are looking okay so far, all green on the board from boston to chicago, miami, atlanta. a hot day out there but dry in most locations. here is a look at storms outside of kansas city. airport delays possible. definitely early this morning. then those storms will arrive in st. louis later this afternoon. rest of the country, you're looking really nice. coming up next on "morning joe," we promise more warm, fuzzy moments with john meacham, editor of newsweek. undefeated professional boxer floyd "money" mayweather has the fastest hands boxing has ever seen. so i've come to this ring to see who's faster... on the internet. i'll be using the 3g at&t laptopconnect card. he won't. so i can browse the web faster, email business plans faster.

all on the go. i'm bill kurtis and i'm faster than floyd mayweather. (announcer) switch to the nation's fastest 3g network and get the at&t laptopconnect card for free.

they work to make a difference. to make an impact. to improve the lives of others. they're people in positions of great power. the power to effect change. for them, career advancement is a goal. but not the only goal. for them, it's not about the money. although money is always nice. it's not about a corner office. it's about a greater good.

there's a school for people like this. an online iversity where advanced degrees advance the quality of life. walden university. a higher degree. a higher purpose. i don't know whether you've seen the latest cover of "newsweek" magazine on the rack at the grocery store but the recovery says "the regs is over." "the recession is over." now i imagine that you might have found the news a little startling. i know i did. >> the president responding to last week's cover of "newsweek," the editor of "newsweek," and andrew jackson, he also has a personal photographer. jon meacham, i'm wondering, when

rush limbaugh went to sepac, got up on stage jumping up and down, obama responded to him, boom, his ratings exploded, same thing happens. you are the rush limbaugh of the publishing world. he mentions your name and makes things fly off the rack. >> do we get the same numbers? i could probably live with that. i don't know when the last time president obama was in the grocery store to see a magazine but i thought that was great and i appreciated his taking note of it, an interesting argument. he went on to say that he thought we were beginning to see the end, and i think that was, that's essentially our argument. we did not have to go back to press because of a rush on the news stands, sorry to report but we stand ready at any time. >> so actually, your cover story was at least the sentiment seemed to be echoed by his treasury secretary. >> yes.

>> and larry summers this past weekend on the sunday show telling us the worst is over. >> one hopes. it seems to be economists are a little like foreign policy experts. everything is very clear in retrospect. and so whether this is, in fact, a turning point or not, we will know ultimately when it's done, but all signs, since a lot of this is psychological, a lot of the signs are good, and to what extent is this a self-fulfilling prophecy, i don't know. but there does seem to be a slightly different feel about things than in the past few months. the other thing that we're, i think we have to guard against, and i think this is particularly true of the politics of it, is, well, okay, we're bored with the recession now. this has been the story for six months so we need to change it. there are still as you've talked

about a lot, significant underlying issues, questions about the deficits, debt, and how we get out of this, get out of it fully. >> and a lot of people still obviously hurting. look at this front page picture of "the washington post." this is a woman who collapsed on a couch while she was moving out of her home this past weekend, to move in with her mother, another picture down below, a husband and a wife hugging in a garage as they've cleared out their home as well. while economists may be saying the recession is over it, seems to me there is a great danger of politicians making the same mistake that john mccain made on september 15th of last year, when he announced that the economy is okay. the fundamentals are strong, we're going to be okay because there's still so many people hurting and just as we saw in the 1930s, it was unemployment that lagged behind industrial

output. it took eight years before people started getting jobs back. >> well it took a global war in that sense. >> okay, 13 years. >> but it's actually a good point, i mean, president roosevelt had a miserable 37, 38, after winning a huge landslide with the court packing seem and with the recession. and a lot of folks would argue, i suspect ms. noonan among them that the second world war was what really got us out of the depression as opposed to the new deal. what did come out of the new deal and i argue we hope comes out of this is to use emanuel, to use rahm's point, not letting a crisis go to waste, is some structural reform and whether it's in health care, whether it's in our compensation structures, even our sense of what our entitlements should be,

that would be a good thing. >> also, our character, the character of, instead of having zero percent savings rate, saying i'm going to spend everything i have, and more, actually seeing the united states people go from having a zero percent savings rate last september to a 7% savings rate right now, even without a government program, we as a country are collectively waking up and not setting a shabby standard as we've set for ourselves over the past 25 years. >> it's probably a lot of sobering up going on, after a huge materialist toot, you know, which is what we've been on for a quarter century. >> it's already happening. you mentioned the psychology of the recession, and the psychology of the recession is no match for the unemployment of this recession, and what it does to people, you have 28-year-old college graduates moving back home. >> absolutely. >> jobless, into a home where

the 56-year-old father is recently unemployed. >> i can tell you how arrogant some kids who are getting out of college were a few years ago. we've all seen it, the letters basically say, i'll work with you but i also may work here and here, basically what are you going to give me. two years later letters back saying i will intern for free. >> right. >> but i will tell you, in some quarters, some people are still just as reckless as ever. jon, stay with us. we'll be back with one of those people, paisley smoking jacket, pulitzer prize winning columnist eugene robinson. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. welcome to the now network. right now

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welcome back. top of the hour, lax airport, let's go to las vegas, that's his legal residence in the sands. let's go to st. louis, gateway to the west, also washington, d.c., and the white house and up to new york city, and now we have a look at some of the top stories. >> we'll start with breaking news. the white house is describing former president bill clinton's trip to thk nk as a "solely private mission" to negotiate the release of two jailed

american journalists. reporters euna lee and laura ling were sentenced to 12 years of hard labor or illegally crossing the border. clinton who arrived in pyongyang earlier this morning is only the seconder former president to visit north korea. the white house will have no further comment to avoid jeopardizing the success of the mission. >> of course that first president that went to north korea, well, bill clinton, jimmy carter, you got a pulitzer prize, nobel prize, nobel peace prize out of it and the north koreans have numbering clear weapons. both sides ended up being happy with how the '94 summit went. >> hopefully different outcome this time. secretary of state hillary clinton is headed overseas for an 11-day seven-nation tour through africa, a day after clinton condemned israel for its plans to evict dozens of palestinians from homes in east

jerusalem. andrea mitchell will bring us live reports all week right here on msnbc. the white house is backtracking on suggestions made over the weekend on the sunday talk shows that the administration is leaving open the possibility of raising taxes on middle class families. listen. >> why didn't secretary geithner and dr. summers say they will race tax on the families? >> having watched some of the transcripts they allowed themselves to get into a hypothetical back and forth. i'm reiterating the president's clear commitment in the clearest terms possible that he's not raising taxes on those who make less than $250,000 a year. >> mike barnical, read my lips, "no new taxes." >> he called houston, called kennebunkport to see how that worked out for the last president who said no new taxes and then raised taxes. >> he's sticking to it. the pilot of a commercial airline was killed today when the plane slid off a wet runway

and crashed into an old control tower. at least 7 of the 68 passengers were injured in the crash. today the full senate begins debate on the nomination of judge sonia sotomayor to the supreme court. confirmation is virtual lay sly assured in the democrat-controlled senate that could come as early as friday. several republicans plan to vote against the nominee including senator john mccain. >> regardless of one's success in academics and in government service, an individual who does not appreciate the common sense limitations on judicial power in our democratic system of government ultimately lacks a key qualification for a lifetime appointment to the bench. for this reason, and no other, i am unable to support judge sotomayor's nomination. >> more on that coming up. president obama is celebrating his 48th birthday with a bump in his approval

rating, a modest one. it edged four points to 56%, after reaching an administration low of 52% last week. he plans to mark his birthday today in the exciting meetings with senate democrats to discuss the economy and health care at the white house, really a green birthday party. ♪ happy birthday to you et will's bring in "washington post" associate editor and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. "if there's been a more clinically insane political lifetime than the birthers i've missed it, trying to analyze the phenomenon would mean taking it seriously and taking it seriously would be like arguing about the color of unicorns," they are not white! "about all that can be said is that a bunch of lost, confused and frightened people have decided to seek refuge and

make-believe. i hope they are harmless and i hope they seek help." >> awfully hateful thing for a pulitzer prize winner to write. i've got a quiz for you, gene. you say this is the most clinically insane political phenomenon in my lifetime. let's play a little game here, what was more clinically insane, saying that george bush 41 got cocaine in central america and sold it to south central l.a. persons of color or the birther phenomenon? >> well, you know, that was insane clearly. i don't think that qualified -- >> what was more insane? >> i don't think it qualifies as a phenomenon. >> the belief among many of the left that george h.w. bush met in paris with the ayatollah to make sure that iran kept the

hostages in iran before ronald reagan was sworn in or the birther phenomenon? >> who believes that, joe? >> a lot of people believe that, a lot of people. okay, i'll get one a bit more obvious. what was crazier, a lot of the conspiracies that michael moore was spinning in 2004 about pipeline deals that didn't exist, and conspiracies between the bushes and osama bin laden's family or the birther phenomenon? >> joe if you want me to concede there are crazies on the left and on the rigs i will concede that. >> this is america for you and me. there are crazies on all sides. >> these are particularly persistent, stubborn and loud

crazies who not on this network, fortunately, but who elsewhere have gotten actual currency for this sort of, you know, bizarre conspiracy theory that, look, i wasn't going to write about the birthers because you know, they're nuts and so why bother? but i looked at the calendar, it's the president's birthday. i had to do it on august 4th so happy birthday, mr. president, wherever you were born. >> exactly. i guess my point is -- >> the other thing, joe -- >> i've seen a lot of people on the left also trying to attach this to mainstream republicans when, in fact, you even have people like ann coulter and i think limbaugh and the whipping boys and girls of the american right who have already called this nonsensical.

>> no, that's absolutely right, and you know, bully for ann coulter and rush limbaugh. i bet you never thought you'd hear me say that. both polls out there indicate, and this is the only serious point in this whole story that there are some sizeable chunk of the republican party that seems to buy the idea. maybe not the full tin foil conspiracy but the idea that obama really wasn't born in the u.s., he's really a muslim. and that's weird to me. >> i've heard that these are southerners who are racist. of course the only thing i would say is that at one point, not so many years ago one-third of americans believed that the united states was involved in blowing up buildings on 9/11, and i would guess that those were probably left-wingers that lived in urban areas.

again, sadly this happens on both sides. jon meacham? >> gene, i was just wondering, if you think about it, the last three presidents have all faced questions of legitimacy, clinton, bush, because of florida, and the obama thing is all about legitimacy and whether or not he can legally be in this office. but weirdly, as paranoid as american politics has always been, as richard hoff said or taught us, what is it about post 1992 america that has raised the stakes of this level of conspiracy theory, do you think? because you didn't hear this about nixon. >> no, you didn't, and people on the left obviously have strong feelings about nixon, have strong feelings about reagan, but didn't contend that somehow they were illegitimate to occupy the office. i don't quite know what that is, that we seem not to be able

to -- >> let me take a shot. >> -- to have any right to exercise any kind of authority. >> i remember when i was running for congress ' 4-'94, before people started using e-mail and get hateful faxes day in and day out. i think a crazy person in wisconsin being able to reach a crazy person in florida and pretty soon you have this community that can connect every day and feed each other's most paranoid fears and it creates a movement. >> well, to jon's question, i think part of the answer is with regard to whether you're talking about birpters, whether you're talking about theily legitimacy of the bush presidency or the clinton presidency, we don't have a political problem in this country so much as we have an editing problem. we now have a nation 3600 million columnists on the

internet, a nation of 300 million talk show hosts on cable tv. we have a nation where you can come on as a guest and to fill the air time, god love us. we have to fill 24 hours of air time and all of these theories can be thrown out there. >> the thing is now, let's narrow this down because it's certainly not about this show, not about "newsweek." this is being fed and i'm going to be really careful, i'm not going to name any names at all but this is being fed by certain radio shows, certain television shows, certain websites, on both sides, who not only get away with preaching hate. >> on both sides. >> on both sides, they are rewarded on both sides for preaching hate, for being vitriolic, for not having people of varying views on their shows. >> you mean it increases their audience and if their audience doesn't keep increasing their ad rates go down.

>> they make money off it. they publish books, and this sort of hatred is generated, and again, i will mention nobody, but there is a certain person that called the president obama a racist last week and do you think that's going to help his career or hurt his career? it's going to help it. >> being extreme tends to help a career. one of the things i think is going on, with modern technology, the most foreign phrase could you possibly use but with the internet, with all of that stuff, with tv, with cable, what you have when the subject is politics is not constant explanation and conversation. it is constant agitation. it is constant. they're trying to hurt you. they're trying to do something bad to you. in a political sense, it's like rubbing a raw nerve every day, and while i think we all know this is what happens in modern america in an odd way, i don't

think we know it enough, because it's our everyday lives. we don't notice the impact of it every day. >> scratching a sore every day. >> the sore place in the -- >> jon meacham quickly. >> i think we should start a run on richard hoffstetter's book, see if we can get a run up on amazon. go ahead. >> i wanted to ask meacham, the expert, one question. andrew jackson, a lot of people were shocked and appalled that such a person could become president, but when he was president, did they believe he was an illegitimate president or did they accept that we got a president i don't like? >> it was the latter, it was a president you don't like, and he was actually, he was quite

observant himself. in 1825, he was muscled out of the presidency by john quincy adams and henry clay, and you just don't hear enough about henry clay on tuesday mornings in 2009, but he accepted, he called it a corrupt bargain but he accepted it, went back and then he took his case to the people and he ran and won, and then though there was vicious campaigning, no one ever said after jackson won the presidency that he was not a legitimate holder of the office. >> they tore into his life now. >> they tore into his life, but if it weren't for andrew jackson, florida would still be part of spain. >> yes. >> so joe scarborough would be jose scarborough. >> of course, well, that's great. thank you for that, jon meacham. >> thank you. here to help. >> so peggy, this has another

effect, too. while there's a barack obama or a hillary clinton or a john mccain who will be willing to step into the fray to run for office, think about literally the tens of thousands of great congressmen, senators, governors, presidents that we will never have because people just aren't going to step in -- >> a number of normal people, never mind the number of people in politics who won't go any further than they've gone. you and i have both known people who have talent and experience and accomplishment and you look at them and you say you ought to run for office with what you though. and they say are you kidding me? first of all they haven't lived perfectly, sinless lives which is almost required now. >> yes. >> do you know what i mean, or else you're going to get killed in this current environment, and irony being that some of the

best, most interesting, most talented people are most likely to have had the most interesting lives so they're already taking that out of the equation. it's a very difficult political environment right now. >> really is, and it keeps getting worse. i get out of congress in 2001, 2005, the republicans came to me quietly, asked if i would consider running, and word got out about a week and a half later, within ten minutes the lines that were on the internet, my wife went on and saw all of these things that were on there, accusing me of this and that, just outrageous things and she said you're not running. our kids are not going to turn on the computer and read this about you day in and day -- it really is, it is insane. >> and they hadn't touched between leaving office and 2005.

>> the sad thing is they didn't even get it right. i mean, the rumors were nothing about what willy and i had been doing in vegas for three months. >> whatever happens in vegas stays in vegas. >> you did drive the car, uncle mike. >> designated driver. >> as the professionals called you. all right, hey gene, thanks so much for being with us, "newsweek's" jon meacham, thank you. coming up, how we avoided a second great depression. have we avoided a second great depression? david wesley takes us inside the mind and the methods of fed chief ben bernanke. but first, former commander of u.s. forces of the middle east, retired general tony zenni. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. at 155 miles per hour, andy roddick

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with us special, retired general anthony zinni. thanks so much for being with us. "leading the charge: leadership lessons from the battlefield." if we read this book how is it going to help us? >> i think the book talks more about the leaders we have today, some of the things that i notice that successful leaders have done differently, given the new environment we're in, changed since the end of the cold war, new generations, rise of technology, the need for more

personable leadership. i think the principal difference is the leaders that get it today are more in tune with their environment, they understand the environment. for example, when president obama campaigned, he used the internet, he understood technology, appealed to younger generations. i think you're seeing leaders now that aren't hung up on block and wire diagram structures, they think more strategically, they are visionaries. they communicate better. they understand the diversity that they deal with, because much more diverse workforce, military force. >> right. >> not only diversity in terms of ethnic and religious differences, racial differences but generational differences. >> we always hear about generals fighting the last war so it sounds like your top warn something don't fight the last war. look at the battlefield in front of you. >> absolutely. this battlefield, places like iraq, afghanistan, elsewhere, very different than what we prepared our military for. >> really, do you feel seven years later that we are starting

to get it, that we're starting to adjust to the new realities in front of us? >> yes. if you look at people like general petraeus, general odierno, general krystle, admiral mullen. people looked at the tactics i was in iraq at the request of general odierno doing an assessment. i noticed the number of things the military took on and did because nobody else was doing it. i told general odierno you're doing everything from agricultural to zoos, a to z, running the zoos, running the day palm harvest. he understood that was more important than shooting your way to victory and that paid off. it turned things around. it's still iffy but they gave the government of iraq a chance. >> mike barnacle. >> general mcchrystal army, a

huge contingent of marines charged with befriending the population, sticking close to the victimage. how has that bifurcated leadership work, is it working well? >> it's not a problem with us anywhy are, the gold water/nichols act of the '80s, so you could mix our services into no problem but the real challenge is coalition. i think the real question is whether nato and the international force could stand up. we have the bricts and dutch an canadians who will fight and the rest have taken a pass which is a question in my mind. we need to internationalize this. >> should we remove the word "win" or "victory" from our vocabulary when it comes to a place like afghanistan? >> i think you have to. what it coninjuries up is the defeat of the enemy, takedown of a regime, of surrender. none of that is going to happen. victory will be defined by a reasonably stable afghanistan in

three to five years, we sort of phase out and they sort of take over. it's not jeffersonian democracy or free market economy but something reasonably stable. >> peggy? >> when you look at the 20th century as a general, as a military leader, who do you think has been the best american military leaders of the 20th century? best generals, best leaders of men and maybe best strategic thinkers? >> i think clearly george marshall stands out. a great military lead are, great mind and great strategist and able to take that beyond the military, besides strategically designing the war and the way we fought it, he prepared us for the cold war, the marshall plan and the work of the truman administration, the 1947 national security act which restructured government, the creation of nato. i mean there are a whole series of remarkable strategic things

that were done and he was certainly one of the architects of that. >> genal zinni, you said we wouldn't use the words victory or win in the case of places like iraq and afghanistan but we did have a memo from colonel reese this week saying in iraq it's time to declare victory and go home. number one is that the right way to think and number two what happens when we do that? >> i think it's too soon for anything like that. several things have to happen. on the ground we've got to develop the afghan security forces to be able to handle this. that's a three to five-year project. correctly, the administration says we have to regionalize this strategy. you've get into pakistan, central asia, and get them cooperating which is hard, those are not matches made in heaven and then you have to, going back to the point about internationalizing, you've got to get the international community to stand up to this not only in terms of troops on the ground but paying for, this is very costly. even the pakistanis are going to bear an unbelievable cost for their operations and the

aftermath and their economy can't handle it. >> let me ask to you rate our two most recent presidents on leadership lessons. what negative leadership lessons do people learn from george w. bush? i only say this because you were critical of president bush. what did he not get right acc d according to you? >> going back to some of the points i made in the book, one is i don't think he did the assessment of the environment he was in correctly. i didn't think he let enough voices in, voices that might have been a counter to some of the decision-making, some of the assumptions, some of the cherry-picking of intelligence, and i think it's important to have around you those willing to say that won't work or that's wrong. >> and gen raul powell, a guy who actually fought the same war in the same country a decade ago that they have reservations, should probably listen to him. >> i would think so. colin powell, i've worked for him a number of times and i love

him, but he should have been brought into the process and had the credibility, been part of the team and the decision-making process and i felt he was ostracized. >> and woodward asked george bush why he didn't ask colin powell his opinion on going in, and the president said, well, he knew how powell felt so there's no need to ask him. you ask somebody whether they'll disagree with you. barack obama while i have been really concerned with his domestic policy seems he may be a realist on the international level. how do you rate president obama on that point? >> i think he is a realist and i think he has a vision. and he sees things pretty clearly, at least from my judgment. there are a couple of issues i would have a little concern with. the team arrivals, the jury is out whether that will come together. he's done some structural things that are interesting, all of the special envoys that are out there. they're outside the normal structure and there's some grousing amongst the career

types, they're not confirmed by congress. it's an interesting approach, maybe it will work but it's confused in some cases the real policy, who is making it, whether it's a national security adviser, the vice president, secretary of state, one of the super envoys, and you get mixed messages out there. now, the one point -- >> actually, richard holbrook says he's in charge of everything so it's very clear, right? >> no comment. >> he's liberated some schemers in pakistan. come on. all right. we'll leave it with a no comment. the book -- we love richard, by the way. "leading the charge: leadership lessons from the battlefields to the board room" general tony zinni, thanks for being with us. coming up next, economic reports due out this morning. cnbc's resident international superstar erin burnett, when we return.

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a government designed stimulus program that's working! people trade in their old cars and get up to $4,500 toward the purchase of newer, more efficient cars, cash for clunkers. i figured out how to solve

medicare, too. sorry, grandma! >> wow, the joe scarborough theory, put them on an ice float and push them away. >> out to sea. >> stephen kohl bert said he was watching our show and said that appears to be my health care reform plan, put them on an ice float and push them away. hateful, just hateful. it's not my position at all. >> hi, grammy! >> unbelievable. we're getting new numbers in on consumer spending and personal income. the latest from cnbc's resident international superstar live from the new york stock exchange, erin burnette, as you know, consumer confidence extraordinarily important. have we broken the glass ceiling? are happy days here again? >> i'll tell you one thing, when it comes to confidence consumers are so very fickle. it's interesting you look at consumer confidence numbers it's not the confidence headline that is directly correlated with spending but consumer

expectations of the future that tends to be correlated. here's what we've got this morning, the latest numbers for july on spending and income, given two-thirds of our economy is linked to the consumer are important. consumer spending rose more than expected in the month of june, that was non-durables so short term things as opposed to things that last three years or more like washing machines, but incomes did see their biggest drop in four and a half years and by the way, that really does hone in on this whole question, joe, of happy days and the new normal. and it harkens back to the last recession, we have the jobless recovery. if we don't end up with income growth and consumers can't get the same sort of debt they used to get on their credit card or even on their home, where is the spending going to come from in. >> i want to underline that number again, tell me again personal income down, what was it, the lowest in how long? >> four and a half -- their biggest drop in four and a half years so on an salute basis it's not like we're back there but the biggest drop for the month

of june. >> so the question is, of course, erin, we see a slight blip in the economy, maybe a slight turn-up. >> yes. >> the question then becomes is this all and i've seen economists ask this question, this government spending flooding into the economy and once that goes, we're back where we were. >> it's a good point and one other thing, joe, really sticks out here, i think is worth to mention we have all been hailing the increase and the savings rate, and a lot of very smart people have been very skeptical of the sharp reported increase in savings in this country because it doesn't seem to make sense, given that people aren't really paying down their debt and incomes aren't going up. the savings rate in this report shows that it fell to an annual rate of 4.6% and that was as high as 6.2% in may so in this number you are seeing a drop there. >> all right, and -- >> so that's interesting. joe, i got one other story for you. >> sure. >> this is a really upsetting story. are you ready? >> i am.

>> do you know they are conducting air raids in australia to kill camels? >> no, no i didn't know this. >> did you know they had camels in australia? they have millions of them. >> i must say i thought everybody knew that. i am, in fact, the new york director of the australian camel defense fund. >> sorry, mark. >> what is wrong with him in. >> he needed his hair spray. >> he doesn't even have enough hair to put hair spray but go ahead. >> ooh, he can't hear you. they have camels to help move things around in the outback, got trains, didn't need the camels. there are entrepreneurs down there, this does have a business story say there's $1 billion worth of meat walking down there and it is the new red meat. low in cholesterol, low in fat and with a strongly beefy flavor. >> mmm, mmm.

>> nevermind the camels, how much elastics had to die for haines' suspenders to live. >> he can't defend himself. he has a new haircut and looking just fine. >> fantastic. erin, international superstar. >> see you tomorrow morning bright and early joe. >> thanks so much, see you tomorrow here on "morning joe." coming up next, david wessel on ben bernanke and how he led the world's most powerful institution under a great panic. keep it right here on "morning joe." - hi. - crowd: hi!

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with us now the economic editor of the "wall street journal" david wessel author of "in the fed we trust and bernanke's war or the great panic." the fed not a really population

institution. you take polls. >> the gallup polls show the irs was more popular than the federal reserve. the only good thing is the media wasn't on the list. i think there are two reasons, one is that there's this big suspicion in america that when the government gets involved in finance, that they're in it for the big guys. it's why we had the first bank of the united states and the second bank of the united states blow up, because there's the suspicion and secondly people want to blame somebody. this is a horrible economy and the fed forced itself into the lime light, creating trains of dollars, bear stearns not bailing out looeb so they get blamed. >> you argue that ben bernanke and the fed helped divert the second great depression. give me the moment. give me the moment when we were at the tipping point where bernanke, if he had done something differently we may have slid back to where we were in 1929. >> i think it's the last part of

september, middle of last september last year, lehman brothers has gone down. ben bernanke, the fed chairman, hank paulson, the treasury secretary are stunned at the mess it's created and have to decide what to do. >> they had no idea. they could not believe things were as bad as they were. >> absolutely. >> they were in a state of shock. >> right and bernanke says and paulson and president bush also said that was the moment when it was the oh, no, moment, not exactly the way to put it. they saved aig in a panic because they don't know what else to do, the big insurance company that might have played, turned into a casino gambler, go to congress, get $700 billion to bail out the banking system. those two weeks are where we hit a fork in the road. >> jack welch said to me he thinks ben bernanke is an american hero because of what he did in late september and in through the last quarter of last year. do you buy into that? >> i do.

i do. i think what happened was two things happened. it's really interesting. one is here's a man spends his entire academic life thinking about how did the federal reserve make so many mistakes in the great depression that it turned a bad recession into a terrible depression, and so he's looking at this crisis through that lens. a lot of people think he's crazy but he looks at it through that lens so he is strangely prepared for this. it's like if we had some paleontologist looking at studying dinosaurs and one day a brontsauris and tyrannosaurus rex show up on the horizon. the other thing is our system, our laws weren't equipped for this and bernanke was the only person with the ammunition to fight this fire. >> david, the fed seems to a lot of us who are not the most sophisticated financial minds in the world, it seems like a mysterious and supremely powerful power center that one ought to fear and be skeptical

of. >> right. >> ought one -- sorry, i got lost in my sentence. >> should it scare the hell out of us? >> there's something about the centralized extraordinary power of the fed that makes you think, oh, there are a million john grisham novels in there? >> yeah, i wish there were more novels, it would be more fun write about. it is mysterious, it wasical calculated mystery. someone wrote a book 40 years ago called "an intentional mystery" so they created this aura you people can't understand what we do and we'll speak in this monetary gobbledygook and trust us. bernanke is trying to get away from that. that has made them popular. we should be skeptical. it's a supremely undemocratic institution we set up in order to protect us from ourselves and they need scrutiny. >> willie geist? >> if the fed bought us back

from the brink in late september and ben bernanke is the hero as you've suggested, what is their role right now? what are they doing day-to-day to continue to keep us from going back off the cliff in. >> there's celebration in the markets that the recession is over and it's going to be wonderful. that's not right. 'going to be a slow recovery. keep monitoring the amount of credit and get unemployment down. second job is to never again strategy. what do they do to not make this that's what's happening around the country.. >> president of the united states, corporate titans, how is it they missed what happened last september in. >> failure of imagination. reminds me a little bit of september 11th. there were a few people who said someday terrorists might take a plane and crash it into a building but nobody was listening. it just never occurred to them that so many smart, sophisticated people could bet so much on one simple proposition that house prices would never go down. >> i'm going to say this, i put it in my book, september 10th,

2003, in the banking committee, ron paul says, "this is what's going to happen over the next three or four years." go back, just google that. it's amazing. not everybody missed it. ron paul said we're ramping this up and with fannie and freddie and you're going to see housing prices go up, and banks are going to follow into the fray. the balloon is going to expand and since it has to do with housing, when it explodes, it's going to be a colossal mess. there are more few people who figured it out unfortunately not a lot of people running our economy. >> every day there's six or eight people speaking loudly about the next catastrophe that's going to happen and most of them are wrong, and every once in a while one of them is right and we don't know who to listen to. >> david, we're going to listen to you. david wessel, thanks so much. the book is "in fed we trust." looks like a great book. we'll be back with what will be driving the political day ahead on "morning joe." tools are uncomplicated?

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♪ do you remember how the stars were aligned in september ♪ this day, august 4th it's the president's birthday. happy birthday, mr. president, from everybody at "morning skroe." the good news if you turn 48 today your poll numbers are going up a few points. that beer summit paid off.

you're at 56% now, up three points over the weekend. and also the white house is still pushing its no new taxes mantra. here's robert gibbs from yesterday. >> why didn't secretary geithner and dr. summers say that they would not raise taxes on those families? >> well, i did not watch the shows. i read some of the transcripts. i think they allowed themselves to get into a little bit of a hypothetical back and forth. i'm reiterating the president's clear commitment in the clearest terms possible that he's not raising taxes on those who make less than $250,000 a year. >> read me lips, middle class no new taxes. meanwhile we're going to be seeing washington talking today about a program that's actually worked. cash for clunkers. the senate has until friday to pass a $2 billion bill to keep that program alive and obviously a lot of dealers across the midwest and america are in a wait and see mode as congress takes on the $2 billion bill. now if this has some of you

down, you can always feel better by watching "jon & kate plus 8." why not? the rest of the country seems to be other than mika, willie and me. by separating their marriage seems to me that jon and kate have unified america so why is this country so obsessed with this particular train wreck? i think it's because of moments like this, that are delivered without irony. >> two and a half days, we had about three to five paparazzi who snuck around outside of our house just like they did at home. what do you do? i'm living my life and if they have to be there and take pictures, great, but i'm not going to keep my kids inside and stifle their existence. >> how sad. i put my kids on a reality show and somehow the paparazzi follows them around. well you know, maybe once president clinton's done in north korea trying to free those two journalists there, he can

head to jon and kate's household and try to free america from this latest reality addiction. when we come back, what, if anything, did we learn today? undefeated professional boxer floyd "money" mayweather has the fastest hands boxing has ever seen. so i've come tohis ring to see who's faster... on the internet.

i'll be using the 3g at&t laptopconnect card. he won't. so i can browse the web faster, email business plans faster. all on the go. i'm bill kurtis and i'm faster than floyd mayweather. (announcer) switch to the nation's fastest 3g network and get the at&t laptopconnect card for free.

♪ welcome back, kids, the time

of the show where we talk about what we learned today. willie, what did you learn? >> just a second. >> it was a little too beefy up here. i learned about the problems when women are scorned and they have easy access to wood glue, carpent carpenter's glue, they glue things to other things and it's all a big mess. >> ow! tracey what did you learn today? >> i'm petrified because you yanked me up here, come on. are you guys kidding me? >> you look great. you do. >> you make us look great. >> mike? >> i learned that thank god the woman didn't have a stapler, she'd just have the glue. the other thing i learned i'm going to give the president of the united states for his birthday what i give my kids for their birthday. >> what's that? >> money! that's what he needs, money! >> he's getting it anyway. whether you do it voluntarily or not. i have a feeling you're in the top income. ♪ happy birthday to you ♪ happy birthday to you

♪ happy birthday mr. president, happy birthday to you ♪ ♪ and many more >> that's the best we can do. now crack addicts, from maine to california, your maine straight up next in the morning meeting. dylan ratigan. it's way too early. what time is it? >> this is no good for barnacle no hair to spray. the morning meeting starts right now. thank you, william. thank you, tracey, thank you everybody. good morning to you. it's tuesday, i'm dylan. welcome to "the morning meeting." bill clinton to the rescue, in north korea, the former president making a surprise trip to the country to try to win the release of two american journalists, jailed in prison camps there. is he upstaging his wife, the secretary of state and more importantly going to get the journalists out? as the senate takes up the debate on the supreme court nominee, sonia sotomayor, of course, senator john mccain says no to her nomination and his

state is 30% hispanic. why would he do that? we're talking to the man who may have pushed mccain to vote against a third of his constituents' interests perhaps. plus from hope to a joker, a new poster makes fun of obama, protesters are crashing town halls, the videos showing up on the internet. are there signs of an american uprising or is this an organized plot? probably neither. anyway, michael jackson says -- something's going on though. michael jackson's dermatologist drops another bombshell as if we didn't have enough in this story the dermatologist says he wants a say in the custody of jackson's kids. why would that be? we'll find out it's 9:00 a.m. pull up a chair and joining "morning meeting."

welcome. we begin with some breaking news from overnight. former president bill clinton in north korea working to negotiate the release of two jailed american journalists. nbc's savannah guthrie live at the white house on the beat. what's going on, savannah? >> reporter: as you mentioned, dylan, former president bill clinton in north korea this morning, there to secure the release of those two american journalists. the smart thinking is that he must have gone with an assurance that he would be successful or he would not have gone at all. from the white house there's no official comment. i can read you a statement that came from press secretary robert gibbs a few moments ago. "while this solely private mission to secure the release of two americans is on the ground, we will have no comment. we do not want to jeopardize the success of former president clinton's mission." so we will see if the president is indeed successful. in the meantime senator graham, the republican from south carolina was asked on the "today" show whether there was any hope from this mission, not just the fate of the two